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184 Comments
- celeb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30http://www.cityoftuttle.org/ site is still down
http://www.tuttle-ok.gov/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7BCC5DEFB6-1B2A-4783-A5F8-A92275C95081%7D
here's the man himself - SirNuke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27I assure you this problem isn't limited to any city council. One of the worst experiences of my life was sitting through my local city council's annual budget meeting for AP Government (back in High School).
For over an hour a single woman (on the council) argued that the city's employees were getting too much training. Over the course of the hour her argument went from Employees getting to much training and wasting money, to employees were complaining about the training, to the managers were complaining about their training, to a few managers complaining about having to go to an hour long meeting about the paper-work process of firing people. If that's not bad enough, the city was having trouble in a lawsuit because a manger screwed up some of the paper work.
A hour of ever increasing stupid, uninformed, half-baked, stretching the word 'arguments' arguments. I think the quote "Well, we shouldn't give all employees leadership training, because we can't all be Chiefs, we need Indians too." just about sums it up. - pixelwerx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24Imagine if Jerry had seen the default page for an IIS web server. I'd love to see the fallout when he accused Bill Gates and Microsoft of "hacking" the city's website.
- Vogateer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28> excelent read!
> god damn they are morons in o.k.
Yeah, an Oklahoman like myself can neither tell my ass from a hole in the ground, nor catch spelling mistakes like someone using "excelent" instead of "excellent."
Also, perhaps you could enlighten an okie like myself as to what the "o" and the "k" stand for in "o.k.", since apparently there are two different words according to your initialism. - olegk, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26I think Jerry Taylor must be fired and sued for harassment. This is just ridiculous. What an a**hole.
- celeb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21My favorite part - "I am computer literate! I have 22
years in computer systems engineering and operation." - ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Oh my gosh, "All your city are belong to us. Somebody set up us the bomb. You have no chance to survive, make your time!" I'll probably get -digged on this comment, but damn, it would have been a great web capture to see this guys face if he got that in an email.
Thanks for the chuckle Synoptic - ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Are you kidding? Under what obligations should CentOS have solved this 'whole mess' for this guy and how was he NOT professional? If you're thinking like this then hell, why not ask why Microsoft doesn't fix all the problems out there, or better yet direct all questions about Linus towards Linus Torvald for help. No charge from either Microsoft or Linus, they should just fix the problems and be done with it.
What magical tech world are you living in bud, where IT is free and problems are fixed within minutes of the problem surfacing? CentOS has no obligation to support a user error or a hosting services error in their configuration. That's why the city pays Vidia or whatever it was called, to host their site, so the people who fix things get paid to sit there and fix these things.
No sir, your attitude about this is unprofessional and I resent it. I think you owe anyone who has ever helped someone for free with IT work an apology, starting with Johnny Hughes at CentOS. - Synoptic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20"Professional" implies that you're getting paid for it.
Actually, it looked like Johnny Hughes showed a good measure of restraint and was really helpful when he didn't need to be.
I would have been temped to write back something stupid, like "All your bases are belong to us!!#!@!!" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19 AND its for reasons like this... that we get such idiotic useless, unenforceable Internet laws.
Seriously, for the love of (insert your favorite higher figure here) why the hell are people like this allowed to even touch a computer???? What was it 25, or 22 years of computer engineering experience??? and yet he doesn't understand???
I ran a test... I loaded the 'default config page' for centos on my computer, and said to my girlfriend (before explaining why, or mentioning the story) And said... remember the web page I made for you? (I made her a blog like site so she could create care-sheets n such for reptiles, http://www.thereptilestop.com ) What would you think if you saw that instead of your page when you went to it?
Her reply 'I would guess the server wasn't configured right, why'
So, apparently despite that guys 20+ years of experience as a 'Computer Engineer' he was out done by my girlfriend, who is 23 years old, and never attended a computer class in her life, nor knows html. - liddy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Ah, lord.. That was one excellent read. Sadly points out what we all know about alot of our officials in government.
- jaxzin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Warning to those looking to use http://www.mytrashmail.com to send a fake email. They don't warn you that they will attach your IP address to the email until AFTER you submit the request. You then have 2 hours to 'donate' money to them to remove the footer before the email is sent out. Not that I've used it or anything...a friend told me, yeah that's it...
- Mycroft999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Classic example of why starting with polite communication is always a good idea. There is always time later to start threatening action, but once you cross that line there is no going back.
I have no problem believing the city manager has 22 years of IT experience. I quit the industry after having a couple of idiots like him destroy the last project I worked on.
Team Leader: "We'll hard code the choices into all the data entry windows. That will make maintenance easier!" - raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15" I am computer literate! I have 22 years in computer systems engineering and operation. "
Hahaha... yea right! Not a job where you actually did things. Someone with that background would have spent 2 minutes on Google and learned. Actually, they'd likely know enough about the default webserver pages to recite them.
It does do a great job of showing how people who don't know what they are doing, get municipal, and government jobs to work with experts... and just waste time/money.
Now this is just a webserver... how does everyone feel about politicians micromanaging things like nuclear power plants, and waste treatment facilities... creepy eh? These guys sometimes think they know better than the engineers trained to do the job... they drop titles, and threaten (just like this guy did). Wonder if he does the same thing when to a doctor who diagnoses an illness.
If I were his boss... I'd say he should loose his job. Anyone who spends a day threatening to call the FBI, and can't bother doing a basic websearch to understand the concepts emailed to him... isn't going to get much done.
Problem isn't the technology... it's people to ignorant to admit they don't know what they are doing.
The most brilliant of men... know that they know little about anything.
The most stupid of men... think they are experts about everything. - pixelwerx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17What a ***** moron.
City Manager? Is this guy an elected official or was he appointed by a retarded monkey? Either way, I fear for the citizens of Tuttle. - NejiKun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Bravo for the good laugh. Although I wonder why it is funny to see other people in pain...
EDIT: Ok, I just took a good look at the city website....wow, they really need to hire somebody to design it for them correctly. It looks like a 5th grader made it from an edited Xanga template. - Vogateer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13He was appointed by city council, and doesn't run the webpage, he's the city manager. The 22 years of IT is complete *****, and he's behaving like a jerk, so it's easy to get a laugh out of his ignorance. But, yeah who really thinks anyone gets elected into an I.T. position? The citizens of Tuttle probably will never know about this; I doubt they really care about the webpage, and won't care about this incident unless it gets picked up in a local newspaper that this guy is making them look bad to the whole world.
- celeb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Good to know these people are running the show huh? =)
- canadianguy33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13haha that's hilarious! Digg ++
Jerry needs a lesson in manners. First he makes wild accusations and then threatens to have the FBI hunt him down. Then he realises his mistake and doesn't even bother thanking or apologising to Johnny? What's up with that? - tafty86, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I sent him an email:
"
City Manager Jerry A. Taylor:
I first want to start off by saying that I am not a constituents of your so you may or may not care what I have to say, but it is my right as a free citizen of the United States to express my opinion of the government because it is afforded to me by the first Amendment of the Constitution. Now with all that said here is my message to you City Manager Jerry A. Taylor:
I have recently read a few articles about you and your email discussions with Johnny Hughes. After reading all the emails I fell that someone needs to tell you that you should listen to people when they are trying to help you. Johnny Hughes numerous times tried to help you, and each time you became more and more hostile. You need to relax and no threaten a maker to get the FBI when he can't help you because you don't give him the necessary information.
I surely hope that you do not deal with the fine residents of you city in the same manner as you did Johnny Hughes, and if you do I hope to God you do not get re-elected!
Here are a few of the places I visited and found out how much of a dumb ASS you really are. And once again, try to listen to people first!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/
http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127
http://www.digg.com/security/Why_every_city_council_needs_at_least_one_geek_=%5D
-Mr. Matthew XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX@yahoo.com
Chico, CA 95926
*I have included my real name and location because I feel that I have done nothing wrong in expressing my opinion to a government official.
"
That is a copy of the smial sent to him (with X's filled in), and I really don't care if he gets the FBI to come nocking at my drom. ;)
______
Here is a screen shot of the conformation of the sent email! http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotemial8mt.png - ReinMasamuri, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13LMAO
I love their motto: a place where people grow - friendly!
apparently Jerry A. Taylor missed the memo :p - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I just submitted this story to Tuttle Times ( http://tuttletimes.com/contact.html )
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I just thought you might want to post a story about your amazingly computer savy 'City Manager'
http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127
To read what the tech community thinks of this... check this link out.
http://digg.com/security/Why_every_city_council_needs_at_least_one_geek_=]
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------------
http://www.thereptilestop.com - peace, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16Here's a shorter version of the same story:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/ - EvilRob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13When you turn 16 you should go get a library card.
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11What are you talking about? Johnny's responses were far more professional and polite than the situation required. I'm usually a pretty polite guy, and I doubt I would have been nearly as polite as Johnny was. For example, the first time he'd threatened to get the FBI involved, I'd have probably looked up the number for him.
Jerry, on the other hand, was an ass. - a1lostnomad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I am mad and ashamed at the same time. As a respectable computer nerd and man born and raised in Oklahoma I always hate seeing bad press like this. Oklahoma City was one of the first cities with municipal Wi-Fi for public service use, the University of Oklahoma has a very impressive super computer program, and finally, Oklahoma is almost on top when it comes to broadband coverage in rural areas. Despite our advances, we continue to be looked at as "backwards". This is a title our leaders work tirelessly to get rid of, but dumb people like Jerry Taylor never fail to screw it up. Thanks a lot Jerry.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13The city of Tuttle - The place where people grow friendly should be reworded to The city of Tuttle - The place where people grow stupid.
- twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I am familiar with Tuttle, OK and there is no tourism there. It is a wide-spot in the road that is there just to keep the dirt busy while the road crumbles.
- celeb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12data entry most likely...
- thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10you're an idiot lostboytexas, it's foss and they don't have to help him at all. they made an effort and instead of even READING AND RESPONDING to their questions, he threatened to call the FBI.
stf_
care to buy a vowel? - ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10We aren't talking about business and economics here, we're discussing how a CentOS employee did what he could to assist someone who was not taking his information and using it. In fact, the only time business and economics came up was what lostboytexas and I were going at up a few posts. This entire website is about technology and the traffic is mostly geared towards technical people who can relate to these stories.
Understanding business roles and economics really have no play here, though I'm sure many people are intelligent enough to comprehend important trends, but this really has nothing at all to do with anything other then the guy was a prick and it shows. Johnny from CentOS did a fantastic job trying to resolve the problem and that's it. The dude was a jerk and CentOS tried to help.
We really don't need to worry ourselves about people on here understanding business practices because it does not matter if we do or don't. What matters is if we understand the story. - Quarks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I'm greatly concerned about this matter.
We have politicians in charge of important technology but at the same time they have no clue how it works.
They're doing fine with Non-tech related stuff, but when there's a computer involved they suddenly turn in to complete idiots.
I'm not trying to be all nostalgic but people have no clue how stuff they use daily (and with great interest) works nowadays.
I remember a Prosecutor who got a new PC and just dumped his old Computer in the trashcan without formatting or even deleting his HD (including his porn!). - ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Meh, it's funner to be dramatic in the spoken text, when we get mingled in the real world the fun is removed altogether. Look, do you really think the image of CentOS will be altered in any way shape or form from this in a negative way? I really doubt it will see one speck of bad news, but a jump in brand recognition. No business manager or purchasing agent will ever stumble across this thread on Digg.com or in the random pages of CentOS's website. The only people who will ever read about it are people like you and me, and after reading what went down, can you tell me you were swayed to never use CentOS because of this issue?
Most likely not and same goes for everyone else reading this. The general public will never see things like this and the general public will never see the lovely Apache page in question. The general public could give a rats ass about any of this, in fact they may even chuckle themselves over it.
My point is, addressing the Saturday morning drama, is that you came off sounding like Johnny was being unprofessional and I don't think he was. You saying he was unprofessional sounded more left wing then it did purposeful to this discussion. So yes, I still think your opinion is unprofessional and having you tell me to come over and be your bitch has me wondering if YOU are the WoW playing freak who's never been laid. - cdreiling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"CentOS is a business." lostboytexas
I don't recall CentOS.org charging for anything, software, support, etc. - Vogateer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Yes, this definitely reflects well on the CentOS team. It's difficult to have patience with someone when they're throwing around accusations and threats without even listening to what you're telling them, but Johnny handled it with patience and class. Most impressive.
- ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Oh man, that was some serious funny shi... err reading. What intrigues the mind of a Digg reader the most, I'm sure, is what would have happened if we had the FBI get involved with this issue. Wouldn't that have been great for the feds to come down on this issue, thinking a governments site was being hacked, only to come across some ignorant politician flailing his arms like a spoiled child for no reason at all?
Yeah, I could see some agent in the FBI laughing his head off and writing back to the city council member explaining how serious the FBI takes hacking threats and to have their attention and resources wasted on ignorance, even when a solution was provided by the software creator, is unacceptable and could come with penalties.
You know, now that I think of it, I really wish it DID escalate to the FBI just for a better ending to the story. - Skysurfer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Ironic that a dozen Digg stories later, a story about people being unaware of their own incompetence was posted...
http://www.digg.com/science/Study_Shows_most_People_are_Unaware_of_Their_Incompetence - endernet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Generally, City Manager's are not elected. They are hired by the City Council.
- tryrmdashrf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I was trying to explain why this is funny to some non-tech friends. The best I came up with is someone taking a picture frame they bought back to the store because the place holder image of a guy and his dog wasn't the picture the person wanted in the frame when they bought it.
- Toast1185, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You can't spell bureaucracy with IT. It's good to know that government at the local level is keeping pace with the likes of the FBI in technical ignorance. It must be part of the Patriot Act that you have to be computer illiterate to work for the government, prevents cyber terrorism from the inside.
- macewan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8405-381-3173 or http://www.tuttletimes.com/contact.html
- agentf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Reading between the lines... I think I see the cause of the problem.
No on staff IT. Which unfortunately is common in Oklahoma. I live there :(
It looks like an office's homepage was set to http://www.cityoftuttle.org/ so when Tuttle changed hosting and domain names, which the City Manager should have known about, to http://www.tuttle-ok.gov/ they of course got an Apache test page instead. So irate idiots went to Taylor because he is a "tech guy".. why? He listed being a "Project Manager for Raytheon, a defense contractor, for 22 years." In other words a pointy hair boss. (See Dilbert).
Oklahoma has a lot of native americans in its borders. I wish I knew what Taylor was thinking when he saw "Apache test page". Did he think some Indian reservation had some hackers replacing gov sites with "Apache"... ha ha lol - idlewest, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7________________________________________
From: idlewest [mailto:idlewest@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:17 PM
To: 'editor@chickashanews.com'
Subject: Suggestion for a great front page article...
Your city is getting international attention this weekend, might make a great frontpage story!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/
http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127
http://digg.com/security/Why_every_city_council_needs_at_least_one_geek_=%5D
http://www.tuttletimes.com/index.php - macewan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8this reminds me of the washington-nc.com domain, i offered to our city, Washington, NC but they blew me off. so I let the registration run out on it only to watch a porn company snap it up. so for several months the city of washington north carolina website was a porn site. verrry, funny stuff. then all of a sudden they paid the porn site off to get the domain.
as my wife say, they'll let anyone drive on the info highways now days - ReinMasamuri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Sent the Tuttle Times this link
- shrdlu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Yes, but look at his "IT" experience...
"Program Manager 22 years
Raytheon(E-Systems, Inc.)"
Ah, yes, E-Systems... Acquired a few years ago by Raytheon. Home of any number of black projects. For your entertainment:
http://www.esystemsinc.com/esystems/government_services/government_services.html
Yes, indeed. One of the folk you most want *out* of the business... - simd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6It's great publicity for centos.
However, I do think they should build a module into Apache which prevents the OS from serving such hideously designed web sites as http://www.tuttle-ok.gov/. A simple regular expression checking for FONT-FAMILY: century gothic would be a good start. Stewth. - bani, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9even 2 million years of experience wouldn't help this *****.
- simd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I hope you proof read that before actually sending it off.
- Misos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Perhaps he had experience before the invention of *nix. =/
-
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